Minutes of the 15^th Meeting of the 161^st Session

6^th March 2008 ~ Kirwan Theatre ~ The Lisbon Treaty Debate

AND so it was that the 15^th meeting of the year was held here in the Kirwan with Paddy Cluskey chairing. Main business for the evening was the debate on the Lisbon Treaty, but before that we had Private Members’ Time. Paul MacEoin proposed the motion ‘That This House Would Regret the Rise of Social Networking Sites’. Paul began by saying how websites like Bebo, Facebook, and Youtube are a disease. He said how he thought the whole thing would just be a fad for a few weeks in 2006, like AIDS, but that he was sadly mistaken. While writing the minutes, I decided to look up something of note on everyones Facebook or Bebo profile. For example, Paul’s Facebook profile lists him a ‘single’ although he is currently in a relationship. Hmmm. Paul told us how people keep using the PCs on campus to go on these sites instead of using them for coursework and said how we should shoot those caught on Bebo on college computers. ‘I hyperbole for effect’ he continued. He finished up by saying how it isn’t hard for paedophiles to use Bebo, forcing Paul to clarify that he is not actually a paedophile, although he’d certainly know how to go about as one if he wanted.

Zoe McNair opposed the motion; countering Paul’s claims that people would be subject to bullying on social networking sites by saying how people are mean to each other anyway. She said how most problems from such sites are from their utilisation, and not the concept of the sites themselves. Finally, she said how such websites are great for entertaining us. Zoe McNair is a member of the Facebook groups ‘Good Grammar is Hot’ and ‘I actually quite like porn’.

Katie Doherty proposed the motion. She said how these sites can be dangerous for kids, and said how we have lost track of what real communication is. With anonymous posts, anyone can write anything they want about anyone else online for all to see, and this is to be regretted, she said. Katie also told us how some people can become addicted to such sites. To steal a quote from Juan Butlero, on Facebook Katie Doherty lists her political views as ‘other’. What does that mean?

Sean Butler, the Al Gore of our Students’ Union elections, told us how back when he was a lad, we sent these things called ‘letters’ to each other, and questioned what the difference is between communicating online and speaking face to face in this so-called ‘reality’. Sean said how people can chose to make their profile more private online and to stop adding stupid, annoying applications. Sean is a member of the Facebook groups ‘When I was Your Age, Pluto was a Planet’ and ‘The Charcoal Grill- An Appreciation’.

Sarah Bruen, a law graduate of this fine university, told us how people lose their inhibitions online and would do and say things they wouldn’t in real life. She also said how the idea of flirting with little emoticons online is just weird. Sarah was voted number 8 in the poll ‘who’d be the best person to be stuck with handcuffs to’ on Facebook.

Conor Kelly opposed the motion. He said how Bebo is a great way of just being able to say ‘what’s the craic’ to his homeslices in Dongeal cheaply and quickly. He also said how nobody is forced into adding weirdos as friends and that online bullies can be banned from websites entirely. Conor Kelly is looking for, and I quote, ‘whatever I can get’, and is a member of the groups ‘On May 15^th 2008 everybody needs to go out and panic buy CARROTS’, and ‘Fuck college, I’m becoming a pirate’.

James O’Donnell proposed the motion. He said how social networking sites are the cause of all our problems, from global warming to gang warfare and the English nation. He said how people hooked on Bebo and the Internetz change; they start using words like ‘n00b’ and ‘n00b cannon’. He said how racists like himself shouldn’t be let anywhere near these sites, and warned of a dark future where social networking sites will use US to communicate with each other. James O’Driscoll isn’t on The Facebook, the freak.

With that the motion was put to the house, so to speak, and defeated.

So onto main business, and the motion ‘That This House Would Vote Yes on Lisbon’. In first proposition was the Proinsias de Rosa, Labour Party Member of the European Parliament. He told us how the Lisbon Treaty is about more right and more responsibilities. The Treaty creates legal obligations for the EU to commit to fairer trade and respect for the United Nations, and takes no powers from the Member States, he told us. He went on to say how the Treaty does not force privatisations of member states’ industries and how the European Parliament will be given greater legislative powers. He concluded by saying how James Connolly would have stood by this Treaty, as it increases social solidarity between the peoples of Europe so that our continent’s young people would never slaughter each other as they did in previous generations.

Sinn Féin’s Sarah Brook-Murphy opposed the Treaty, and said how solidarity is needed across Europe, but that this Treaty is not the best way to achieve it. She said how the text of this Treaty is 96% the same of that of the 2005 Constitutional Treaty which was thrown out by the French and Dutch voters. She said how Ireland will lose it’s automatic right to a Commissioner and this deal gives too much power to an unchecked bureaucracy in Brussels. She told us how the Treaty demands that member states progressively increase their military capabilities and that the Irish government had failed to secure recognition of Irish neutrality in a Union where 25 of 27 member states are NATO members as well. Sarah concluded by saying how Lisbon re-asserts that the market is king, and calls for a roll-back in public spending.

Next to speak in proposition was Professor Helen Wallace of the London School of Economics. She focused on the continuing enlargement of the Union, and said how this Treaty is needed in order to create a more effective and more accountable Union that can cope with 21^st century challenges like climate change. She told us how although Ireland will lose some clout in the voting weights, Britain will too, and this is in the interests of an expanding Europe. On climate change and Europe’s responsibility towards Africa, she said how this Treaty makes agreements between states and the Union easier to undertake.

Declan Ganley, founder and president of Libertas, opposed the motion. He said how in quiet voices and in quiet actions, the European Union we have built up over the decades will be taken away. He told us how the government does not want you to read the text of the Treaty, and quoted one of the drafters of the Treaty as saying ‘we can get them to adopt, without knowing it, the proposals we dare not present to them directly’. Mr. Ganley went on to say how this Treaty puts our control over Foreign Direct Investment and local taxation at risk, and that more and more of our legislation is coming from the EU, making the Óireachtas more of a rubber stamp than a parliament. He concluded by saying how the most democratic thing you can do is send back this Treaty to Europe and let the 470million people who didn’t get a vote on it this time have a voice.

Brendan Kiely of the Alliance for Europe proposed the motion. He told us how the European Union has brought untold prosperity to Ireland since we joined in 1973, and that we can now work and live in any of the 27 states without hindrance. We can go to New York for shopping trips, and not for life, he said. He said how America and Russia don’t want Europe to have a strong and united voice, and that we need one so as to effectively face up the challenges of climate change and people trafficking. He also said how the Treaty makes ministers vote in public at meetings of the Council of Ministers and that the Treaty is available to everyone who wants it.

With that the motion was opened to the floor. Kiran Emrich opposed the motion, saying how the climate change proposals don’t go far enough, and how it’s not right that Ireland is the only country getting a referendum on the Treaty. He also said how Irish neutrality will be undermined by this Treaty as it already is, with American troops in Shannon and Irish soldiers stationed in Chad to prop up a dictatorship so we can steal their oil for our European overlords.

Back in the real world, Eóin Ó’Niallain responded by saying how Ireland’s triple-lock neutrality provisions are specifically mentioned and protected and said how the Charter of Fundamental Human Rights gives Europeans better protection.

Pat Nolan opposed the motion, saying how multinational companies are moving their operations from the west of Europe to the east for lower costs, and claimed that this is the EU at work. The EU, he claimed, is nothing more than a club for big business, and voting for this Treaty is like turkeys voting for Christmas.

Steve Fischer spoke on the motion, and asked whether the Treaty was made self-amending by Article 48, to which Declan Ganley replied yes, and Proinsias de Rosa replied no, almost as if the two of them were is some sort of discussion, or exchange of views between two opposing sides, or even, a ‘debate’.

Michael McHugh supported the Treaty and said how Europe should be well-armed and able to defend itself from any potential threats in the future, while Alan Lyons claimed the Treaty could be self-amending and said we should be able to negotiate with the other EU nations as equals, and that this Treaty attacks that right.

Around this time, every single law student present in the Kirwan that wished they could tell all these people who think they know about how constitutional law works cause they watched Law and Order that one time to pick up a freaking book or else stop all these assertions about law.

Joe Quinn was the final speaker of the night and opposed the motion. ‘I don’t know much about this Treaty’, he began, which is always a good start to a speech, and then followed through with that sentence, much to the displeasure of the aforementioned law students. He said how he wanted to know why we were the only country holding a referendum on this Treaty [see J.M. Kelly’s Constitutional Law, 4^th Edition], and compared this referendum to the Nice Treaty, and how the government told us to have another go because we voted the wrong way. Joe concluded by saying how we are still largely uninformed on this Treaty and that we all really need to educate ourselves on it. Unfortunately, the library was closed by this time, and so the assembled students were unable to go learn about the EU, and cursed the lack of a candidate for the Students’ Union proposing 24-hour library access.

With that the motion was put to the House, and Defeated.

These are the Minutes.