Minutes of the 10^th Meeting of the 161^st Session

24^th January 2008 ~ Kirwan Theatre ~ The Prostitution Debate

AND so the Great Prossie Debate of 2008 was held here in the Kirwan with Paddy Cluskey chairing. Main business for the evening was of course the motion That This House Would Legalise Prostitution, but before that we had Private Members’ Time. Donna Cummins, our beloved former auditor and way better than our current auditor, proposed the motion ‘That This House Would Condemn UCD’s Decision not to Allow Le Pen Come to the Law Society.’ Donna was talking about Jean Marie Le Pen, everyone’s favourite far-right, neo-fascist, cheese-eating, wine-guzzling, foreigner-bating, immigrant-hating French politician.

Donna told us how Le Pen doesn’t care for people with HIV or black players on the French national football team. However, she also told us how freedom of speech is what debating societies are all about and we should send a letter to UCD supporting the Law Society invitation. She said how if we start restricting free speech for some people, it will inevitably lead to more and more restrictions until free speech itself is under threat.

Dan Colley opposed the motion saying how freedom of speech is not an unlimited right. He said how the debate in UCD Law Society is about the new EU Reform Treaty, but Le Pen will just use it as a platform for incitement to hatred. Bringing Le Pen to the debate would take focus away from the issue and it would become a debate about him, Dan said. Dan summed up by saying Le Pen’s opinions won’t be changed by harsh words from UCD undergrads, but he will instead go back to France claiming legitimacy.

Dave Finn supported the motion, saying how we don’t know if he’s a loon until we let him speak. Dave said how Law Soc was right to invite Le Pen so his extremist views can be questioned and ridiculed by the good people of South County Dublin. He also told us how you have to allow everyone a right to speak regardless of their views.

James O’Donnell told us how this exact same issue arose in that episode of South Park where the TV executives were afraid to show Mohammed on Family Guy. When one episode gets pulled, more will follow. James concluded by making the entire Kirwan theatre cringe by saying ‘Le Pen is mightier than the sword’.

Paul MacEoin proposed the motion, saying how we let Anjem Choudary speak at Lit&Deb last September, even though he’s a freakin’ nutjob. Paul reminded us how nobody left the Kirwan after hearing Choudary thinking of committing acts of terror. Or maybe some people did. Maybe some people have been planning a devasting attack on Lit&Deb in the months since then, spending each week at the back of the Kirwan on Thursday nights, watching us and learning our habits. Never speaking, but always gathering more knowledge of our weaknesses. Kind of like Switzerland, but with a turban.

Ronan O’Fathaigh of the Law Soc said how we had the same problem here when they brought the American Ambassador to NUIG. Ronan said how nobody can say with absolute certainty that they are right or wrong, and that UCD should give Le Pen a podium and then challenge his views.

Alan Lyons said Le Pen can’t really be that bad, seeing as he’s just a crazy ould Frenchman. I tend to agree, and maybe Le Pen wouldn’t be such a racist if he’d just take off his beret and put down that cheese for just one second. Maybe if would just take the time to waddle over the bibliothequé and pry open a book with his garlic-eating fingers then he might realise that we must look beyond clichéd national stereotypes if we’re to make any progress.

Tony McDonnell opposed the motion, saying how universities are a safe haven for liberal ideas and open-mindedness, and how we shouldn’t pollute this atmosphere with the hate speech. Tony also said how the debate in UCD is about reforming the European Union, not a discussion of Le Pen’s policies.

With that the motion was put the House, and was narrowly passed.

SO then we moved on to main business, the debate on the motion ‘That This House Would Legalise Prostitution’. Our first speaker in proposition was Mariska Majoor., a former prostitute and founder of Amsterdam’s Prostitution Information Centre, also known as SIPTU for Slappers. And I have to say, for a girl that’s been at the receiving end of the desires of countless fat tourist for years, she didn’t look too haggered. Mariska told us she became a prostitute at age 16 so she could buy a pet dog. She said how the work wasn’t easy but she met lots of interesting people and told us how prostitutes are only providing a valuable service and should be able to work legally and in a safe environment. Criminalisation makes the profession more dangerous, while pro-prostitution policies make the job safer and reduce human trafficking. Ms. Majoor also told us how we mustn’t confuse decriminalising prostitution with condoning it.

Opening the case against prostitution was Paul Reynolds, RTÉ’s crime correspondent who’s kind of like Paul Williams, the Sunday World crime correspondent except not shit. Paul told us how becoming a prostitute is not an informed and voluntary choice. He told us how pimps and criminals run the €100million sex industry in Ireland, and how the idea of the happy hooker with the fat wallet is a fantasy. Paul said how the Vice Kings of the sex industry don’t care about the prostitutes and legalising it would only make things worse. He concluded by saying Australia, Amsterdam and America are all rolling back on the pro-prostitution legislation.

James Hope continued the case for the proposition, saying that whether people want to have sex for money is a subjective choice, and that people should be free to make that decision for themselves in a free and democratic society. James said how working in Supermacs is probably more degrading than the odd stint as a hoer. He also told us how making prostitution legal would help tackle the serious criminals at the top of the sex industry and would allow prostitutes to work in a safe environment with legal protections.

Sean Butler opposed the motion, asking us whether 16 year old girls really dream of screwing fat balding men for money. He said how paying for sex is dehumanising the prostitute who is treated like a mere object for sex, rather than a woman with her own thoughts and probably feelings. Sean told us how legalising it won’t make much difference in protecting prostitutes’ health, as they can’t ask customers to take a blood test for STDs and then come back in three weeks.

With that the motion was opened to the floor.

Ronan Harrington proposed the motion, saying how people end up in jobs just as degrading if not worse than prostitution, like the Arts graduates cleaning toilets, or the Arts graduates lifting luggage in hotels, or the Arts graduates behind the counter in take-aways. Ronan said prostitution involves more skill than these jobs, like the skill of having stamina and a wide-set vagina. He asked that if a bouncer can sell his muscles, why can’t a prossie sell her body too? Ronan concluded by asking who’s the bigger eejit in the situation, the prostitute who gets €200 for a half-hours work or the man who pays her for it cause he can’t score.

Joseph Quinn opposed the motion, saying how cleaning the toilet for a living is not the same as being a toilet for a living by being a prostitute. He said it’s never an educated choice to enter prostitution, and legalising it would lower our collective social morals.

Mike Spring supported the motion, saying how we shouldn’t exclude people from society just because they like to sleep with lots of men for money, while Delia Lowry said that by legalising it we are regulating it, with STD checks and CVs, and can introduce a sort of SafePass for prostitutes so they can make a career out of exploiting guys that can’t get laid.

Áine Mulloy opposed the motion, questioning why we need security guards and panic-buttons in Amsterdam brothels if everything is hunky-dory. She also said how people will just go to the black market if prostitution is legalised and regulated to find a cheaper prostitute.

Katie Doherty said how the only real difference between the legal porn industry and the illegal prostitution industry is the presence of a camera, and that the conservative attitudes of today will change over time.

Karen from Ruhama, an agency working with prostitutes in Ireland, said how becoming a prostitute is not a real career choice. She said how the people getting involved in it aren’t educated or protected by parents but are often recent immigrants with nowhere to turn to. She also told us how men go to prostitutes not for sex, but for the sense of control in buying someone’s body for a while.

Michael from Medicine opposed the motion, saying how prostitution is an end of the line decision, often used to feed a habit. He said we can’t put in place proper protections and that condoms don’t always protect from diseases.

Conor Kelly supported the motion, saying how having some degree of control by legalising it is better than having no control at all, and how imposing your morals on someone else is fascism.

With that the motion was put to the House and defeated.

These are the Minutes.